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View Full Version : The "point" of political debate


spoonInspoon
05-29-2006, 12:42 AM
As you all know i tend to be very agressive when it comes to politics, i dunno why but i believe politics are the way we as people are controlled to run our lives,but when control gets out of hand i really feel the urge to fight it. I mean The only reason why I engage my voice in the field of politics is because there is not alot of people now adays who really care.I think that is sad, granted we all have different opinions. Yet if we love this country so much i think its up to us americans to make sure the high class rich man doesn't take advantage and exploit democracy. I mean its like the 60's, i feel we should try to stop it now before history repeats itself. on behalf of anyone who is young or considers themselves young might agree with me...Think about it sounds silly, but if all human beings had a lifespan of only 20 years do you think history and whats happening now would be the same ? The answer i think is NO " we only live till 20, god damn, i better just live my life while i have one". I guess what i'm trying to say is as people get older they tend to forget the innocence of being young... just a thought. All in all i know this isn't the place on the internet to start talking politics, but i hold strongly the belief that Dave comes from the same "inside" structure as me and alot of us when it comes to these issues.Dave matthews is probably the core reason why i appreciate Dave and DMB so much. I mean 80% of his music is how i always felt about life.Music to me is where I see truth and understanding.BasicallyThe way millions look up to the "importance" of religon is the same way i f eel about music. it is by far the greatest fucking art form ever. (ex-cluding pop groups) Its the form of which we can all be inspired by. Art to me is a reflecion(if you will) of who people are.Expression for anything should never be held back,even if you happen to be a big supporter of religon. Then again why pigeon-hole yourself into a religon in the first place when the world is so diverse and open to other religon and ideals. Faith is faith to me and it doesn't matter what religon you were here on this earth i feel we all go to the same place anyhow. Its just on earth where people get it wrong,nobody has the answers to life's bigest questions, nobody. Thats the wayit is, and i respect that. "The answers" humans are all looking for is (not to sound corny) blowing in the wind. People are just to afraid to be wrong about which is why we all accept religon so much.

okay enough rambling

k3N70n
05-29-2006, 01:21 AM
I respectfully, but VERY firmly disagree. There is a god and I know this because of the evidence around all of us. To me evolution is too far fetched a theory (mathematically - and my aspiration is to be a mathematician) to believe that a intricatly designed universe could be created by chance (an explosition or such). SO, for there be a universe it was - in all likelyhood - designed by an entitie (a god or gods).
To me religion is beliving that this entitie has given humans some way to know something about himself (or herself or thereself) and discovering those truths.

spoonInspoon
05-29-2006, 01:12 PM
I respectfully, but VERY firmly disagree. There is a god and I know this because of the evidence around all of us. To me evolution is too far fetched a theory (mathematically - and my aspiration is to be a mathematician) to believe that a intricatly designed universe could be created by chance (an explosition or such). SO, for there be a universe it was - in all likelyhood - designed by an entitie (a god or gods).
To me religion is beliving that this entitie has given humans some way to know something about himself (or herself or thereself) and discovering those truths.

I never said i didn't believe in god, no doubt i do. I just don't believe in organized religon...Religon divides people as people and has killed people in the name of war since the begining of time.Yet in some aspects religon is a good thing because I think its important since we really don't know for a fact how we got here and religon helps us measure up the purpose of life. I'm just trying to put forth the fact that no religon is right and no religon is wrong. I think it just comes down to following your soul and heart and having faith and understanding . As for the after- life (if in fact there is one) should remain a mystery. Life is the meaning of life and from a universal point of view death is the meaning of death. I just have a primitive way of looking at things. God created everything and i believe the evidence of him can be found everywhere, not just in churches and temples etc. Faith just comes to you ,you either have it or you don't. Just look up at the sky.

onesuiteworld
05-29-2006, 01:22 PM
im not going to get into this, but i caution everyone reading this to possibly steer clear of religious-based arguments.

spoonInspoon
05-29-2006, 01:53 PM
im not going to get into this, but i caution everyone reading this to possibly steer clear of religious-based arguments.

Yeah, we wouldn't want to hurt anybody's feelings:lol: , just don't take it so seriously and i think it would be ok. I'm sorry, but even god has a sense of humor, I mean just take a look at the platypus.

Honsetly i don't see nothing wrong with religous debate, if you judge someone by there religous beliefes,I tend to think your being a hypocrite towards your own religous beliefs

onesuiteworld
05-29-2006, 01:56 PM
i appologize for the following:

even got has a sense of humor, I mean just take a look at the platypus.

what is this 'got' you pray to'

Honsetly i don't see nothing wrong with religous debate

precisely, you see something wrong. double negatives man:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

the thing is that while political debates usually dont cross the line into personal matters, religious beliefs themselves are personal matters. lets also not discount the possibility of the thread getting locked...

spoonInspoon
05-29-2006, 02:16 PM
oops.Being part of a religous debate doesn't mean you have to be part of a religon. I have no major beef with the the true values and MORALS of any religon. I'm just saying there's a lot of false prophets out there, which give religon a bad name...


Are religons supposed to be moarned and not talked about or something ?. I don't see why the thread would be shut down

onesuiteworld
05-29-2006, 02:38 PM
but i dont htink religion should be debated. when religions clash, people die. historically, its true. (and no, im not saying anyone on WDS will die from it)

he who rocks
05-29-2006, 03:16 PM
i think organized religion is one of the dumbest things around... just my opinion tho... and i love debating it.. im always uup for an evo vs creation arguement...

spoonInspoon
05-29-2006, 03:27 PM
but i dont htink religion should be debated. when religions clash, people die.

Which is why its worth debating... kill and start wars cause people don't wanna be on the majority side of your religon. Thats fucked up in more ways than one. Telling me i'm going to hell unless I become a christian even more fucked up.

onesuiteworld
05-29-2006, 03:29 PM
thats a debate i have, and will have: evangelicals (not just christians. evangelical, while it has come to be a prefix for christian, is anyone trying to push their views onto others) have no right to do what they do, and any regime that supports them ought to be overthrown *cough* roe v. wade *cough*

spoonInspoon
05-29-2006, 03:38 PM
thats a debate i have, and will have: evangelicals (not just christians. evangelical, while it has come to be a prefix for christian, is anyone trying to push their views onto others) have no right to do what they do, and any regime that supports them ought to be overthrown *cough* roe v. wade *cough*

and that is my point exactly. I was told i would go to hell once by a relative if i didn't "get on the right path" (born -again). Sorry maybe in your world i'll go to hell. I know some handicaped kids who don't have the slightest idea of what religon is, are they going to hell to ?

Oh yeah Pat Robertson as well, he has a great talent of trying to get fear out of people, like i said false prophets

onesuiteworld
05-29-2006, 03:42 PM
hell is what you make of it. for instance, i think that if i am a bad person, i will go to hell, which will closely resemble my old private school.

spoonInspoon
05-29-2006, 04:24 PM
hell is what you make of it. for instance, i think that if i am a bad person, i will go to hell, which will closely resemble my old private school.

exactly,depends on what your definition of hell is , some people think cause there lives are so F*cked up they are already living in it. Who knowes. Fear of going to hell is what i think controls peoples ideals cause as humans we all know we are going to die someday. Animals have no concept of what death is and they kill and die all the time but thats cause of survival reasons which is the single thread of reason between humans and animals. The thing is humans have waaay more reason obviously, which is why "Murder" is so wrong because when you can use that reason to reconcile peoples differences, as a substitute for bloodshed and murder, then there is simply no need for murder. People are alot like animals maybe were even dumber, maybe animals know something we as humans do not. I think alot of decsions people make in the world of politics reflect and at the same time agetate peoples religon.

onesuiteworld
05-29-2006, 04:38 PM
humans are the only species on earth who maliciously kill their own species. it may be rooted in the teachings of religion, and here is why: religion has taught us that thou shalt not kill, and such a policy has been adopted by governments. people who kill do so, alot of the time, because they know they shouldnt. sure, people kill for other reasons, but this notion is apparent on some level in many murders. so can we blame religion for many of society's problems? i think so. but it has also helps people on an individual basis by giving them faith, and a reason not to go out on a shooting spree.

and as long as were on the topic of self-made hell, heres a joke my mock trial/old history teacher told us last week:

A guy dies and goes to Hell. He's over in the corner crying and the devil comes over to him: Devil: Hey man, what's wrong?
Guy: What's wrong? I'm in Hell, that's what's wrong!
Devil: It's not so bad. Let me ask you, do you like to drink?
Guy: Yeah, I do.
Devil: Well on Mondays, all day, you can drink all you want from sunrise to sunset. Let me as you, do you like to smoke?
Guy: Yeah, I do.
Devil: Well on Tuesdays, all day, cigars, cigarettes, pot, anything you like to smoke from sunrise to sunset. Let me ask you, do you like to gamble?
Guy: Yeah, I do.
Devil: Well on Wednesdays, all day long, cards, craps, slot machines from sunrise to sunset. Let me ask you, are you gay?
Guy: Uh, no, I'm not.
Devil: Oh. You're not going to like Thursdays.

spoonInspoon
05-29-2006, 05:37 PM
humans are the only species on earth who maliciously kill their own species. it may be rooted in the teachings of religion, and here is why: religion has taught us that thou shalt not kill, and such a policy has been adopted by governments. people who kill do so, alot of the time, because they know they shouldnt. sure, people kill for other reasons, but this notion is apparent on some level in many murders. so can we blame religion for many of society's problems? i think so. but it has also helps people on an individual basis by giving them faith, and a reason not to go out on a shooting spree.

and as long as were on the topic of self-made hell, heres a joke my mock trial/old history teacher told us last week:

A guy dies and goes to Hell. He's over in the corner crying and the devil comes over to him: Devil: Hey man, what's wrong?
Guy: What's wrong? I'm in Hell, that's what's wrong!
Devil: It's not so bad. Let me ask you, do you like to drink?
Guy: Yeah, I do.
Devil: Well on Mondays, all day, you can drink all you want from sunrise to sunset. Let me as you, do you like to smoke?
Guy: Yeah, I do.
Devil: Well on Tuesdays, all day, cigars, cigarettes, pot, anything you like to smoke from sunrise to sunset. Let me ask you, do you like to gamble?
Guy: Yeah, I do.
Devil: Well on Wednesdays, all day long, cards, craps, slot machines from sunrise to sunset. Let me ask you, are you gay?
Guy: Uh, no, I'm not.
Devil: Oh. You're not going to like Thursdays.

LOL...That was good,

anyhow, yeah which is why organised religon has its ups and downs, and frankly I would never conform to any of them...Some of the ideals behind religon are great and worth living by, and for the most part i do live by them without being into any genre of a certain religon... Budhism has got some good moral fibers to it as well as christianity and daoism, but not everything in those packages i agree with. If you were to open yourself up to other religons you can compare and contrast and I think the most important part that is relevant in almost every religon is to "do unto others,and let others do for you",don't judge people,live out a peacfulife by coinciding with every individual and respect peoples differences.Very few religous nuts do those things because it affects there personal beliefs on "gay people" and the right to wage war etc etc etc. Frankly God is not to blame for the way things are i think the people who hold up the signs that say "god hates fags" and "Bush is the voice of god" are the ignorant and most fucked up ones. Draw your own conclusions about life and about whats right and wrong, don't play follow the leader. " Hewho is not busy being born is busy dieing"

k3N70n
05-29-2006, 10:12 PM
Here's my favorite religious joke:

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! Don't do it! There's so much to live for!"
He said "Like what?"
I said, "Well, are you religious or atheist?"
"Religious"
I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
"Protestant."
I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
"Baptist."
I said, "Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
"Baptist Church of the Lord."
I said "me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
"Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
I said "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of Of God, Reformation of 1915."
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915."
I Said, "Die, Heretic scum," and pushed him off.

i think i wrote that in right if not you get the idea.

he who rocks
05-30-2006, 02:03 AM
a priest and a rabbi walk into a bar... ouch!

LuciferSam
06-05-2006, 06:44 PM
Religion is an irrational clearinghouse through which you filter rational information.

moc7341
06-29-2006, 10:28 AM
Look at the world around you. Everythything is cohabitant. Everything depends on something else in one way shape or form. I personally find it hard to belive it's all a coincidene. Don't get me wrong, i don't like organized religion as much as anybody, but I do belive there is a God in heaven and his Son died for us. If you don't belive in Jesus, I still love you, it doesn't make you a bad person, but i'm gonna pray for you cus i couldn't handle the weight of life all by myself. I'm very conservative and i'll tell you why all day long, but I do concider these discussions healthy an necessary in society today.

moc7341
06-29-2006, 11:29 AM
My favorite "religious" joke:

One day a 6 year old girl was sitting in a classroom. The teacher was
going to explain evolution to the children. The teacher asked a little boy:
Tommy do you see the tree outside?

TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Tommy, do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Go outside and look up and see if you can see the sky.
TOMMY: Okay. (He returned a few minutes later) Yes, I saw the sky.
TEACHER: Did you see God up there?
TOMMY: No.
TEACHER: That's my point. We can't see God because he isn't there.
Possibly he just doesn't exist.

A little girl spoke up and wanted to ask the boy some questions.
The teacher agreed and the little girl asked the boy: Tommy, do you see
the tree outside?

TOMMY: Yes.
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yessssss!
LITTLE GIRL: Did you see the sky?
TOMMY: Yessssss!
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the teacher?
TOMMY: Yes
LITTLE GIRL: Do you see her brain?
TOMMY: No
LITTLE GIRL: Then according to what we were taught today in school,
she possibly may not even have one!

MousurferDMB
06-30-2006, 12:54 PM
I'm Mormon and we dont believe you go to hell if youre not Christian. Its kind of a long explanation but thats what it comes down to. Kind of a cool thought, God is Just, but hes also merciful and just cause you dont believe in Jesus (i mean theres billions of ppl that never even heard his name) doesnt mean you go to hell. and we believe when you die you get the chance to hear about Jesus before you are judged, kind of like a second chance... hope you followed